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标题: 2009-06-30/ 陶喆无名网站最新两个更新,原版和自己的翻译 [打印本页]

作者: lynh123    时间: 2009-6-30 16:05     标题: 2009-06-30/ 陶喆无名网站最新两个更新,原版和自己的翻译

有位朋友刚写了一篇话,让我觉得必需要回覆。。。他说:

I don't get it. Is the 60’s something to be proud of?
Indeed, having the courage to express oneself is
admirable. But how many of those who upheld the “Love
& Peace” banner of the 60’s knew the true meaning of
love and peace?

Embracing sexual freedom isn’t love, neither is it
true freedom. Rather, I see it as selfishness and self-
indulgence. Don’t you think the many problems of
society today take root from the sexual revolution of
the 60’s?

Speaking of freedom, what’s true freedom? Is it being
able to do as one please? Nature has its law and
order, so is our society. If everyone does as he
pleases, what will the world become? How can peace be
found then?

The youth today may embrace hip-hop without
understanding the soul of hip-hop. How is that
different from those of the 60’s who embraced “love &
peace” without truly understanding love and peace? I
don’t see those of the 60’s being any less
superficial, just a lot more conceited.

——————————————————————————————


有位朋友刚写了一篇话,让我觉得必需要回覆。。。他说:

我始终不明白,出生于60年代有什么值得骄傲的地方吗?确实,敢于表达自己是值得钦佩的,但是,有多少那些支持着“爱与和平”的60年代人理解“爱与和平”的真意呢?

推广“性自由”并不是“爱”,也不是真正的自由。反而,我认为这是自私和自溺的,我认为现代社会的很多问题都源于60年代开始的“性改革”

提到自由,什么是真正的自由?——就是能做自己乐于做的事自然有他的法则和规律,如果每个人都随心所欲地做自己喜欢做的事,那会怎么样呢?那和平又会在哪里呢?

现在的年轻人听着嘻哈却根本不懂嘻哈的精髓,这和60年代的人呼吁着“爱与和平”却不真正理解“爱与和平”有什么两样呢?不要说60年代的人并不肤浅,他们只是自负一点罢了。
作者: lynh123    时间: 2009-6-30 16:06



以下是我的回覆。。。

Lavina, thoughtful piece of writing and I do think you have your point. However, here are a few thoughts on what you've said...

"I don't get it. Is the 60’s something to be proud of? "

As a collective conscious, yes, the 60's is an era and a time in history that we should be knowledgeable and aware of. There's much we can learn (or, perhaps, forget about) from history though, we, as humans often turn our heads from the past. I don't think anyone attached personal pride to that period of time in any of these replies.  

"But how many of those who upheld the “Love
& Peace” banner of the 60’s knew the true meaning of
love and peace?"

I don't think we have any quantitative account of how many people knew the meaning, however, there were many movements that led to action and changes during that period which are still influential today in the peace keeping process. That's history that's been written. How does one measure influence in human history?

"Embracing sexual freedom isn’t love, neither is it
true freedom. Rather, I see it as selfishness and self-
indulgence. Don’t you think the many problems of
society today take root from the sexual revolution of
the 60’s?"

Again, nobody said that embracing sexual freedom is love. Sexual freedom and love are two separate things and were never used in comparison. Whether sexual freedom in and of itself is selfish or self-indulgence is your personal opinion, like you said. Sexual freedom was not born in the 1960's. It was something that existed probably as long as man existed. I'm sure one of sexual freedom's heights was during dynastic Chinese civilization and Roman civilizations? Are there not evils from every era of mankind post-Genesis?
作者: lynh123    时间: 2009-6-30 16:07

"Speaking of freedom, what’s true freedom? Is it being
able to do as one please? Nature has its law and
order, so is our society. If everyone does as he
pleases, what will the world become? How can peace be
found then?"

Are you defending a particular religion or moral concept? Freedom is what you make of it and that definition changes with different societies, eras and governments. Freedom does not mean anarchy or some kind of an existential society defined by Nietzsche. This freedom isn't any extreme definition of the word but the basic human need to express one's self (in a socially responsible manner) without harming others. I don't find this form of freedom offensive, do you?

"The youth today may embrace hip-hop without
understanding the soul of hip-hop. How is that
different from those of the 60’s who embraced “love &
peace” without truly understanding love and peace? I
don’t see those of the 60’s being any less
superficial, just a lot more conceited."

Hip-hop is a form or music or, to some, a form of dress or esthetics. The "movement" of love and peace was a thought, attitude or perhaps, even, ideology. How can these two be compared? It's comparing apples and oranges, which is better?

Perhaps if you wanted to compare the hip-hop and hippie movement and their attached "lifestyles" that would be more pertinent.  

Please remember, the hippie movement and lifestyle in the 60's was not a transplanted culture or form, it evolved in the 60's in California. Hip-hop did NOT evolve in Asia. It evolved amongst African-Americans and their lifestyles. Therefore, my point was that in order to truly understand the "soul" of hip-hop (especially being that it's not indigenous to our culture) we need to delve deeper into understanding it's origins and roots. My other point was that hip-hop music would find it difficult to sustain itself in Asia because we've transplanted it's physical elements but not it's inner core. Is there anything wrong with "embracing" these exterior or esthetic elements? Of course not. However, the soul and meaning of things gets lost in time which, to me, is worth lamenting.

This piece was not written to be conceited or offensive but to offer to some people a view into an era that I found very seminal in the making of our modern 20th century world. I was born on the tail of that decade but was a benefactor from it. I didn't expect some of you would take to the defensive on this. I hope this explains somewhat my intentions and motivations.
作者: lynh123    时间: 2009-6-30 16:07

以下是我的回覆。。。

Lavina,这篇经过沉思的文章让我的确相信你有你的主见,但是你的一些看法............

“我始终不明白,出生于60年代有什么值得骄傲的地方吗?”

的确,60年代是一个我们需要学习并意识到的时期,这段历史中有很多的东西需要我们学习(也许还有忘记),但是人总是喜欢翻旧账。我并不认为有任何人给那段时期附加了一些个人骄傲感

“我始终不明白,出生于60年代有什么值得骄傲的地方吗?确实,敢于表达自己是值得钦佩的,但是,有多少那些支持着“爱与和平”的60年代人理解“爱与和平”的真意呢?”  

我不认为我们能得出一个确切的数字,到底有多少人理解了“爱与和平”的意义,但是的确有许多的运动引领了这个时期的改变,并且时至今日依然影响着当今社会的维系和平的运动。那是一段已经被书写的历史,如果只是一个一个简单的度量,如何影响历史呢?

“推广“性自由”并不是“爱”,也不是真正的自由。反而,我认为这是自私和自溺的,我认为现代社会的很多问题都源于60年代开始的“性改革””

再次提到,没有人说过“性自由”就是爱,“性自由”和“爱”是两个分开的食物并从不拿来做比较。就像你说的,“性自由”是否是自私和自溺的这是你私人的观点。再则,“性自由”并不发源于60年代,那是一个也许从人类存在开始就存在着的东西,我十分确信某个“性自由”高潮起源于中国古代封建文明和罗马文明,难道恶魔不存在在人类历史的任何一个时段吗? “提到自由,什么是真正的自由?——就是能做自己乐于做的事自然有他的法则和规律,如果每个人都随心所欲地做自己喜欢做的事,那会怎么样呢?那和平又会在哪里呢?”  

你是在防卫一个特定的宗教和道德观念吗?你所推测的自由是因不同的社会,时间和政丨府而不同的定义,自由不是尼采所定义的的无政丨府状态或存在主义社会。这种自由的精确定义无法用任何语言来形容,但是最基本的是:每个人都需要表达他自己——是在社会责任方面而不是危害他人方面,我没有发现任何形式的自由是令人不快的,你呢?  

“现在的年轻人听着嘻哈却根本不懂嘻哈的精髓,这和60年代的人呼吁着“爱与和平”却不真正理解“爱与和平”有什么两样呢?不要说60年代的人并不肤浅,他们只是自负一点罢了。”  

嘻哈是一种音乐形式,而对于某些人来说,只是一种装扮和审美的形式,而“爱与和平”运动却是一种思想,态度,甚至也许是价值观。这能比吗?你拿一个苹果和一个橘子比,哪个好?  

也许你如果要比较嘻哈和“嬉皮运动”以及他那附加的生活方式也许还比较合理些。  

请记住,“嬉皮运动”和其生活方式在60年代不是一种外来的文化,而是发源于加利福尼亚州的。嘻哈不发源于亚洲,而是发源于非洲美洲和他们的生活方式,因此我的观点是如果要真正的了解“嘻哈”的灵魂(尤其是这不是本国文化),我们需要更深入的了解他的发源的根。我个人的观点是“嘻哈”在亚洲是无法承受的因为我们只照办了他的肢体衣着形式而根本无法了解它的核心。那么喜爱这些外在和审美形式有什么错呢?当然没有,有些事的的价值和灵魂已在某事某地消失了。这对我来说是很悲伤的。  

这不是一篇自负或带有不快的文章,他是我试图让人了解那段时期对于20世纪现代社会的形成正如“精子”般重要。我出生于那十年的末尾并受到了它的恩惠,我不希望你们对此津津乐道。我希望这多多少少解释我我的意向和动机。
作者: conquer    时间: 2009-6-30 17:46

谢谢楼主~


老陶 越来越 成熟有魅力了 、、、、、


更老陶学英语
作者: ASION    时间: 2009-6-30 18:41

喆服的双语达人真多
作者: longyuehua023    时间: 2009-7-1 09:36

      老大的哲学性 思想性啊··
作者: 喆哲学    时间: 2009-7-1 17:01

向着哲人的思维模式前进
作者: fengjiayun1988    时间: 2009-7-1 20:11

引用:
你拿一个苹果和一个橘子比,哪个好?
好!老大说的好!

看来我也得多看看柏拉图的书了
作者: szjunshao    时间: 2009-7-2 02:38

都好有学问啊!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
作者: mm.014    时间: 2009-7-2 12:09

说得很有哲理。。。
开始还是看不懂了。。。
再看看好像感受到了他想说的东西。。。
作者: 春笑    时间: 2009-7-10 12:20

好深奥啊,他的思想果然已经到达某个境界了~~~~~~
作者: 雅玛    时间: 2009-7-15 15:50

老陶发表言论起来还真有学者的渊博和演讲者的口才




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